Good comments! We had some kids head out to ATF in Denver a couple weekends ago and really enjoyed it!

Stu,

Skillet has the best “lead screamer” around. His wife looks like Slash playing that ax too!

Man, I so totally agree. I’m not a fan of where ATF and the whole Battle Cry thing is moving at all. Unfortunately, my new church (been here 2.5 months) seems to love the events, but as the youth pastor I feel very uncomfortable with it. So, tomorrow is our volunteer meeting and I’m gonna push for Planet Wisdom instead and see what happens.

Stuart,

Why don’t you go to a Bob Jones University concert?

Thanks for this post. My husband and I are youth pastors that stuggle with this balance regularly. I just watched a video about Battle Cry and felt myself cringing at some points and feeling a strange pull to it at other times. I guess what I can’t reconcile is that at these events, our teens really seem to experience God. I can barely force myself to listen to this “war mentality” of Chirstianity and yet, the accept invitations and come back wanting to start prayer groups. Actually we went to “the Call” pre-event last week with some teens and then tried to follow it up with some practical Christianity and went to “invisble Children” Displace Me event to stand with the children in Uganda the next night. I thought this would have a wholisitc approach to the gospel but I had kids wanting to do “street evangelism” at the Displace me event because not everyone there were CHristians. I can’t reconcile my feelings of indoctrinating kids with this hyper-evangelism vs. being proud of them for seeking God and experiencing Him on a new level vs. wondering if this is just an emotional expereince vs. feeling like all this “helping the poor, servanthood Chirstianity” I promote may be missing something in the area of personal relationship etc. Sorry everyone, I know this is rambling. Please bear with me as I’ve never posted a comment before but feel all this bottled up within me and just need an area to think it out!

After seeing a report on CNN tonight that had alot of stuff in it about ATF and Luce, I’ve come to a realization. It’s no wonder that alot of “non-churched” folks are turned off by “Christianity”. I was raised in church. My grandfather was a preacher, and I never understood how some people wouldn’t or couldn’t go to church. As a thirty year old woman though, I see things a bit differently. My pappaw was a hell-fire and brimstone kind of preacher. The family used to joke that he could scare the devil out of just about anybody. As an adult though I realize that some of the things that made him such an awesome preacher, made him an awful one as well. The thing that bothers me so much about what I have read and seen about ATF and Ron Lude is that the close-mindedness, while it can be helpful in some cases, what you eventually do is shut out anyone and everyone who may actually need to hear what you are saying. I hope that his tactics have changed, but from what I’ve seen, he seems to be a man who is more concerned about how many he saves. And that in and of itself is pride. And for a man who claims that culture is “bad” maybe what he needs to look at is in himself and stop screaming about all the “pigs and pigstys” outside and clean up the one that is apparant on the inside.

I appologize for rambling, but thats what happens when you get a preachers grandkid started I guess.

With all the respect, I was just curious if you guys really know what ATF is all about. I started going to church when I was around 10 and a few years later the church I started going to took my brother, sister and I to an ATF. It was the time and place where all three of us gave our lives to Christ. ATF was definitely a tool that God used to transform our lives.

Some people may claim that it was a weekend spiritual hype except this is not what happened for us. We all lead a life close to God and we are all still heavily involved in youth ministry. We know that no event is going to be perfect but it seems that you may have gotten the wrong impression of ATF. It really is more than just a concert. Have you tried looking at it with different eyes? Perhaps in the eyes of a youth?

would like to echo the sentiments of the last 2 blogs. I have taken a group of over 90 kids the last two years. We as a youth group, have been attending ATF the last 6 years. It’s not my favorite event but the change in the kids we have taken has been amazing. The first time salvations are enough to compel me to continue taking these kids year after year. I agree this is not going to be the one magic event that changes their lives. You have got to be prepared to disciple them and keep the excitement about their relationship with God when they get back. This is even true of salvation. Jesus called us to make disciples not merely say “the salvation prayer” with them. These kids are looking for something real and if we don’t have a passionate relationship with Jesus ourselves, they will find something else to be passionate about. They will only go as far as we lead them. Youth ministry is being down in the trenches with these kids. Not just taking them to an event and hoping that someone else will reach them. As christians, we need to spend more time being unified and going back to Christ and Christ crucified and less time finding fault in the ministries that God has called others too.
Not trying to cause a comotion. I’ve been on everyside of the spectrum and it boils down to one thing. Knowing God intimately. Let’s strive for that. When we do, we will naturally make disciples because we will become like Him. Like I said ATF is not my favorite event but it is a tool I use. I sincerely hope noone is offended by this but I am growing so tired of our body attacking itself. Remember, they will know we are christians by our love.

T.D.

I just think that the whole “take back out culture and fight” thing is louder than the whole “let’s follow Jesus” thing.

Did you even know about the whole Battlecry march on the courthouse in San Francisco? You know the take back our generation’s family values march on the steps where they had tried to adopt homosexual marriage? What message does that give? We’re right and you’re wrong? What does that prove? That Christians are judgmental bigots?

Is it a battle? Sure. But the battle is more from within than against those around us. What about saving the lost or reaching the broken? That gets lost in the war chant.

In youth ministry we’ve become too much about the big event and less about community. Do you need an event to share the gospel? Do you need a paid speaker and sweet bands for salvation to happen? What ever happened to investing in youth one on one? Community is hard work.

Here’s more on Ron Luce and ATF:

http://stuartdelony.wordpress.com/2007/05/13/battle-cry-a-mixed-messge/

God bless ya man. Sound like you’re doing a tremendous ministry. You’re right, that follow up is key!

Ha ha! I’ve just been spammed by Acquire the Fire.

Did this Stoner even read the review before he posted? I think not.

you guys aren’t looking it at the right way. I Been to 2 events and your review. I became a true follower of Christ when i went to Acquire the fire

hey guys,

let me clarify that my tone as well is not hostile or accusing.

this is quite an interesting blog we have going here and I must say there are tons of thought and answers moving in my head. But I must compose some sort of focus in this response. I have been to several ATF’s this year, and as a matter of fact I have had the chance to tour with ATF for a couple of weeks and see what things are like inside of everything. ATF is not church. That point in and of itself, while so simple, seems to be the key point to several of the disagreements here. once it is realized that ATF is not church, it becomes easy to see the real purpose of ATF. When you think about it, Acquire The Fire has only one chance per year in any given community to present a vision and goal and idea of what Christianity in America is doing today, so in order to fully take advantage of the presented potential, it is only assumed that it must be big, and in some instances in fact, huge. ATF simply doesn’t have the means to have a one on one conversation with everybody that attends the event, that is the job of the church. Acquire The Fire has taken the innitiative to awaken the youth of America to the fact that Christianity is not some passive, lets all hold hands and sing kumbaya, thing that you do on Sunday and then not talk about during the week, but rather that it IS a battle. It isnt a battle against flesh and blood, and time and time again throughout the event, they provide reminders of such.

I can see how those cues could potentially be overlooked and the message miss portrayed, but thats where we as leaders come in. It is our job when we get back home to disciple these kids, to take that passion and zeal that they have and make sure that it is directed towards the right things. I have found with these events, that if I have been really getting in depth with God in my quiet times and having great personal worship, and my own prayer life is doing well, that it is much much much easier to keep up with my youth afterwards. And then again, the inverse is also true, when I have been out of it, and I haven’t been pressing into God as hard, I find myself dreading these types of events.

I know these events are usually draining, trust me I have been on both sides, working with the groups of energetic youth, as well as working the 18 hour days to help get the event working, but when it comes down to the crunch, one question that I ask myself is: Is this worth it even if only one person has the opportunity to hear about the love of God, for the first time. and the answer for me is yes, as a matter of fact, I would be willing to give my life that one may come to know him(after all isnt that what Christ [the root of Christian] did for me?) Maybe that is a question that might provide a different outlook on these types of events. if at any point you answer no to that question, then are you really qualified to be in ministry?

Once again I am not trying to be accusational or hostile and I am sorry if it seems that way at all. Please lets all take these words to heart and really try to do some soul searching before we begin criticizing the other parts of the body.

I Corinthians 1:10 (NLT)
“I appeal to you dear brothers and sisters, by the authority of our Lord Jesus Christ, to live in harmony with each other. Let there be no divisions in the church. Rather, be of one mind, united in thought and purpose.”

I Corinthians 1:17 (NLT)
“For Christ didn’t send me to baptize, but to preach the Good News - and not with clever speech, for fear that the cross of Christ would lose its power.”

I John 4:9-12 (NLT)
“God showed how much he loved us by sending his one and only Son into the world so that we might have eternal life through him. This is real love - not that we loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son as a sacrifice to take away our sins.
Dear Friends, since God loved us that much we surely ought to love each other. No one has ever seen God. But if we love each otehr, God lives in us and his love is brought to full expression in us”

Hebrews 12:1-3 (NLT)
“Therefore, since we are surrounded by such a huge crowd of witnesses to the life of faith, let us strip off every weight that slows us down, especially the sin that so easily trips us up. And let us run with endurance the race God has set before us. We do this by keeping our eyes on Jesus, the champion who initiates and perfects our faith. Because of the joy awaiting him, he endured the cross, disregarding its shame. Now he is seated in the place of honor beside God’s throne. Think of all the hostility he endured from sinful people; then you won’t become weary and give up.”

I pray that you would more fully know the absolute and perfect love of God, and that his call on your life would completely consume you.

i have attended the ATF twice in my life as a christan but one thing i knoe is that no one perfect christan or not, and the ATF is just about getting kids fired up for god that is why there is so much excitement. and probelly why your kids were so akward in this ATF is that they dont feel apart of it and then they get nervous. why do you think some christans feel so akward in the real world cause all the stuff they are raised not to do is happenign all around them