Apr
28
2008
Tony Jones and Trucker Frank’s Road Trip - Episode 2
Posted by: Stuart in Blogroll, Christianity, Jesus, Uncategorized, general, life, people, religion, youth, youth ministryHere’s part two of Tony Jones’ weekly webepisodes on exploring the changing face of the American church.
Tags: Christianity, Church, emergent, religion, tony jones





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April 28th, 2008 at 10:11 am
[...] Kris [...]
April 28th, 2008 at 10:33 am
[...] [go to part 2 here] Tags: emergent, faith, people, religion [...]
April 29th, 2008 at 8:00 am
You should title this post, “The New Non-Christians - part 2″. This consumeristic concept of church which Tony nails when he asks the girl, “What would be your perfect church?” kills me. I sorry, but God gives us all we need to maintain the proper function of church and it is based on His Word not your opinion. Now, I totally agree that that girl was not treated like Eph. 4:9 says…in truth AND love. But remove either truth or love from the equation and trouble is around the corner. What I see from this clip is people wanting to decide what is right for God and thus become god themselves. In response I ask you to watch this clip and see the attitude that is the proper response to God and the of difficulty of when his sovereignty seems to not make sense.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=th6Njr-qkq0
April 29th, 2008 at 8:26 am
I agree Nathan that God’s Sovereignty does not make sense in the case of baby Eliot and his parents. We are limited in what we see on this side of eternity, but through faith in Christ we can see the eternal perspective through God’s Word and the indwelling Holy Spirit. There is no perfect church in the human institution sense, but there is the body of Christ which goes beyond 4 walls, denominations, and American culture. We are called the “Bride of Christ” and are being prepared for eternity to be pure, without spot or blemish, because He bought us with his blood. On this side of eternity I have experienced glimpses of what we are to become, but in the meantime we must individually and communally continue on the journey of being conformed to the image of Christ. He is the Head of the Church, we are not.
April 29th, 2008 at 10:02 am
Well I agree with you in theory Nathan.
I just saw the question as a way to engage the girl about church. He’s not going to go and make a church from her opinions, it’s just a way of breaking down walls and engaging the ways she was hurt by church. If we demystify and unearth these wounds we can put them in proper context and realize that it wasn’t the church that hurt her, only misguided people.
God may give us “all we need to maintain the proper function of church and it is based on His word”, but that all breaks down into human opinion and interpretation - which is how we get all numbers of denominations and such. I just think that many times we take God’s sovereignty out of the equation in many corporate churches - it becomes driven by good intentions, ideas, and based on an American ideal of success. When that happens we forgo people in the process of becoming a well oiled machine.
People get tired of the well oiled machine and long for the community and the way church was meant to be.
April 29th, 2008 at 10:23 pm
First off, we must never equate authority granted to God by his sovereignty with human tradition and experience. That was not the authority that was used by this church that hurt the young woman. That was the choices of fallen man. We must not also fall into nihilism regarding our ability to functionally experience the outworkings of Christ’s Body the church because of differing opinions on hermeneutics. The disarming question to ask the young woman is how has she felt hurt and unloved, not what is her idea of the perfect church. The first question seeks to “demystify” and unearth her wounds while examining herself. The question he asks perpetuates her own justification and rationalization for her rejecting God’s command to be apart of the body. It automatically assumes that her position is correct and the opposite is wrong. If you read other works by Tony Jones you will see this theme come out. “Post-modern Youth Ministry” and “The Sacred Way” both communicate a person bored with Christianity and the “confines” of Scriptural authority while elevating the importance of finding a new path. The current system is broken therefore new is right. Having personally heard Doug Pagitt and Brian Mclaren, and listened through interviews Tony Jones and Rob Bell speak I am gravelly concerned about “the new Christian” and their struggle with Biblical submission. Being a Christian is first and foremost about submission and obedience to God. That is accomplished by adhering to His word and when you strip or modify the level of authority or accept the authority on a partial basis then submission and obedience becomes relative. Church (including people) are not the measurement of success the Bible is, and when that is lived out in maturity and fullness you have an environment were God is glorified, disciples are made, the world is changed. It is getting toward midnight and I have a 6:30 meeting tomorrow morning so if this makes sense great. If not, then
April 29th, 2008 at 10:24 pm
wow, I did not even finish my thought before publishing.
If not then great also and stewart we totally should do coffee. Stop ignoring me. :0)
April 30th, 2008 at 8:44 pm
Coffee is a must man. Ignoring you? I could never ignore coffee. What’s your next week look like?
May 6th, 2008 at 8:05 am
[...] [episode 2] [...]