Comments on: Tony Jones and Trucker Frank’s Road Trip - Episode 2 http://theramblings.org/2008/04/28/tony-jones-and-trucker-franks-road-trip-episode-3-2/ life, ministry, etc. It's all rambled here. Thu, 20 Nov 2008 17:29:13 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.3 By: Tony Jones and Trucker Frank’s Road Trip - Episode 3 | http://theramblings.org/2008/04/28/tony-jones-and-trucker-franks-road-trip-episode-3-2/#comment-2570 Tony Jones and Trucker Frank’s Road Trip - Episode 3 | Tue, 06 May 2008 15:05:26 +0000 http://theramblings.org/?p=801#comment-2570 [...] [episode 2] [...] [...] [episode 2] [...]

]]> By: Stuart http://theramblings.org/2008/04/28/tony-jones-and-trucker-franks-road-trip-episode-3-2/#comment-2523 Stuart Thu, 01 May 2008 04:44:47 +0000 http://theramblings.org/?p=801#comment-2523 Coffee is a must man. Ignoring you? I could never ignore coffee. What's your next week look like? Coffee is a must man. Ignoring you? I could never ignore coffee. What’s your next week look like?

]]> By: nathan cookston http://theramblings.org/2008/04/28/tony-jones-and-trucker-franks-road-trip-episode-3-2/#comment-2509 nathan cookston Wed, 30 Apr 2008 06:24:17 +0000 http://theramblings.org/?p=801#comment-2509 wow, I did not even finish my thought before publishing. If not then great also and stewart we totally should do coffee. Stop ignoring me. :0) wow, I did not even finish my thought before publishing.

If not then great also and stewart we totally should do coffee. Stop ignoring me. :0)

]]> By: nathan cookston http://theramblings.org/2008/04/28/tony-jones-and-trucker-franks-road-trip-episode-3-2/#comment-2508 nathan cookston Wed, 30 Apr 2008 06:23:09 +0000 http://theramblings.org/?p=801#comment-2508 First off, we must never equate authority granted to God by his sovereignty with human tradition and experience. That was not the authority that was used by this church that hurt the young woman. That was the choices of fallen man. We must not also fall into nihilism regarding our ability to functionally experience the outworkings of Christ's Body the church because of differing opinions on hermeneutics. The disarming question to ask the young woman is how has she felt hurt and unloved, not what is her idea of the perfect church. The first question seeks to "demystify" and unearth her wounds while examining herself. The question he asks perpetuates her own justification and rationalization for her rejecting God's command to be apart of the body. It automatically assumes that her position is correct and the opposite is wrong. If you read other works by Tony Jones you will see this theme come out. "Post-modern Youth Ministry" and "The Sacred Way" both communicate a person bored with Christianity and the "confines" of Scriptural authority while elevating the importance of finding a new path. The current system is broken therefore new is right. Having personally heard Doug Pagitt and Brian Mclaren, and listened through interviews Tony Jones and Rob Bell speak I am gravelly concerned about "the new Christian" and their struggle with Biblical submission. Being a Christian is first and foremost about submission and obedience to God. That is accomplished by adhering to His word and when you strip or modify the level of authority or accept the authority on a partial basis then submission and obedience becomes relative. Church (including people) are not the measurement of success the Bible is, and when that is lived out in maturity and fullness you have an environment were God is glorified, disciples are made, the world is changed. It is getting toward midnight and I have a 6:30 meeting tomorrow morning so if this makes sense great. If not, then First off, we must never equate authority granted to God by his sovereignty with human tradition and experience. That was not the authority that was used by this church that hurt the young woman. That was the choices of fallen man. We must not also fall into nihilism regarding our ability to functionally experience the outworkings of Christ’s Body the church because of differing opinions on hermeneutics. The disarming question to ask the young woman is how has she felt hurt and unloved, not what is her idea of the perfect church. The first question seeks to “demystify” and unearth her wounds while examining herself. The question he asks perpetuates her own justification and rationalization for her rejecting God’s command to be apart of the body. It automatically assumes that her position is correct and the opposite is wrong. If you read other works by Tony Jones you will see this theme come out. “Post-modern Youth Ministry” and “The Sacred Way” both communicate a person bored with Christianity and the “confines” of Scriptural authority while elevating the importance of finding a new path. The current system is broken therefore new is right. Having personally heard Doug Pagitt and Brian Mclaren, and listened through interviews Tony Jones and Rob Bell speak I am gravelly concerned about “the new Christian” and their struggle with Biblical submission. Being a Christian is first and foremost about submission and obedience to God. That is accomplished by adhering to His word and when you strip or modify the level of authority or accept the authority on a partial basis then submission and obedience becomes relative. Church (including people) are not the measurement of success the Bible is, and when that is lived out in maturity and fullness you have an environment were God is glorified, disciples are made, the world is changed. It is getting toward midnight and I have a 6:30 meeting tomorrow morning so if this makes sense great. If not, then

]]> By: Stuart http://theramblings.org/2008/04/28/tony-jones-and-trucker-franks-road-trip-episode-3-2/#comment-2502 Stuart Tue, 29 Apr 2008 18:02:48 +0000 http://theramblings.org/?p=801#comment-2502 Well I agree with you in theory Nathan. I just saw the question as a way to engage the girl about church. He's not going to go and make a church from her opinions, it's just a way of breaking down walls and engaging the ways she was hurt by church. If we demystify and unearth these wounds we can put them in proper context and realize that it wasn't the church that hurt her, only misguided people. God may give us "all we need to maintain the proper function of church and it is based on His word", but that all breaks down into human opinion and interpretation - which is how we get all numbers of denominations and such. I just think that many times we take God's sovereignty out of the equation in many corporate churches - it becomes driven by good intentions, ideas, and based on an American ideal of success. When that happens we forgo people in the process of becoming a well oiled machine. People get tired of the well oiled machine and long for the community and the way church was meant to be. Well I agree with you in theory Nathan.

I just saw the question as a way to engage the girl about church. He’s not going to go and make a church from her opinions, it’s just a way of breaking down walls and engaging the ways she was hurt by church. If we demystify and unearth these wounds we can put them in proper context and realize that it wasn’t the church that hurt her, only misguided people.

God may give us “all we need to maintain the proper function of church and it is based on His word”, but that all breaks down into human opinion and interpretation - which is how we get all numbers of denominations and such. I just think that many times we take God’s sovereignty out of the equation in many corporate churches - it becomes driven by good intentions, ideas, and based on an American ideal of success. When that happens we forgo people in the process of becoming a well oiled machine.

People get tired of the well oiled machine and long for the community and the way church was meant to be.

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