stains off the sanctuary floor 420… HA! HA! HA! HA!

I totally agree with your statement about it being a stupid major. However, is it possible this degree is about developing social and mentoring skills? I don’t know anything about this particular major so I’m just throwing it out there.

whoa! little bit of sarcasm there?

anywho, while i am not one for fighting over this topic (i wrestle with it myself) i do feel the need to offer a counterpoint, as i am someone who does hold a bachelor’s degree in student ministry.

i cannot speak for colleges outside of geneva college (located in beaver falls, pa), but my own experience and degree i feel are worth the time and money spent on them. we took such classes as methods of student ministry where we dissected various models and discovered strengths and weaknesses of each one. we had a practicum where we were required to be involved in a ministry a minimum of 10 – 15 hours a week and then used the practicum to network and discuss experiences and learn from each other. we took courses on teaching scripture (to any age, but specifically to the not-quite-fully developed adolescent mind). we took contemporary adolescent culture where we were taught methods of apprehending youth culture to point towards christ.

we were also required theology courses, philosophy courses, and being a liberal arts school, general knowledge courses (science, english,speech etc.). we were also given the opportunity to experience real community, within the major and within smaller groups that we joined through the major. we were provided with mentorship through our own experiences, and had professors and upperclassmen to walk with us as we trained.

all in all, i do agree that we should not segregate teens, but it is important i believe to train ourselves in the best methods of reaching them where they are at in order to bring them forward. clark is a great resource. as are doug fields, dan kimball and tony jones (though i do not quite agree with him on everything theologically).

if there is one thing i would add to the student ministries curriculum that is not currently there it would be practical counseling training. i do wish i had added more electives in that vein than i took.

and please do not misinterpret me, i feel that volunteers are the backbone of any solid youth ministry, those who hold a degree and those who do not. some of the most influential youth leaders i ever had did not have a degree in youth ministry.

Stuart,

I didn’t major in youth ministry (unless you call growing up as a YFC brat) but I think there are some benefits of the degree for some. I took a few classes in Seminary in youth ministry and they helped me. But nothing beats hands on experience.

Chap Clark does have a doctorate in Youth Ministry. Getting a degree doesn’t make you automatically an expert in youth ministry though. Nothing can replace learning by experience and yes you do need to have people skills and the right heart for the Lord and kids. Education has value, but the practical experience does speak volumes to anyone who aspires to have youth ministry as a calling.

Stu,
If I can call you that and pick a fight on top of your fight. I know people who would agree with you that there is no such thing as “youth pastor” in the bible. In fact they would go so far as to say there is no special “pastor” position in the Bible. (Worship, Executive, etc.) but then those same people turn around and say that women cannot fill those roles because women shouldn’t be in leadership (a view I do not hold in it’s traditional moorings). To me those views seem contradictory. If the office of youth, worship, or whatever isn’t addressed in Scripture we cannot use Scripture to in effect discriminate against women. Right?

Stuart,
I think what those of us in youth ministry need is more training in educational methods and theory, and of course these learnings would be useful with all ages we might serve within the church. In particular, current brain research is providing a wealth of information about the best ways that people learn. The seminary I attended had multiple courses in Christian education, but only one January term (4 week) course on youth ministry, and the majority of students did not take this class.

Hey Stuart,

I’ll go one further and say that degrees and majors are waste of time for all – not just youth. I seriously reckon man places way too much attention on such meaningless activities.

Driscoll says that 1,500 seminary trained pastors leave the church each week due to burnout etc. You could have college degress till you’re blue in the face. But if you haven’t got a heart sold out for Jesus, then it’s no point.

Look at Jesus. He used a couple of fishermen, tax collectors and their brothers. Not one “teacher of the law” was to be found.

hahahah,

Whadda ya mean they don’t need no degrees…how else are they gonna convince the youth’s parents that they are qualified to confuse…oops babysit oops I mean teach their kids. LOL

This was a good post!

I’m currently a youth pastor in Seattle and I’ve noticed a trend in my first two years. Church’s figure that if they have a qualified youth pastor that creates a quality youth group or even youth church that this will grow the kingdom of God. This model has killed the church in this area and much of this country. Kids graduate and they feel that the church cannot supply there need for edgy music, chubby bunny, and all nighters because they were taught that its about a group and not about God. I feel like the core of the problem is the lack of understanding of the church. Churches across the country are dying because they refuse to change with the culture. In order to reach the dying churches we need to place a larger emphasis on reaching young people without “youth group”!

So I strongly disagree with your statements. yes the act of seconalizing youth within ministry is not always ag reat idea, but think about it, when in seminary to be a pastor you dont take classes based on youth culture. In those classes you focus on the 22+ aged people, and this is no secret. how can you explain without gettin into the culture all the things of Christ? I am in the process of becoming a youth pastor myself, while this offers a bias of sorts, the majority of my classes are teh same ones you have to take as someone seeking a normal pastorate. the onle excpetion is, i take more youth based culture classes. I learn about how to make it applicable to the youth first, and then adults. What the youth of the world care about, is far different from what the rest of the world does. And yes most issues are the same, but the fact of the matter is without the proper training you wont know how to handle them. Saying a youth min major is stupid, is like saying that doctors dont need to be trained for children, or adults, or men, or women even. Thinka bout it, the spiritual life of a person is much harder to deal with than the physical life, if we say that inorder to give the best care for children we need doctors to sepcialize in it, the same thing goes with pastors.

i hear ya and feel ya. however it is not a bad idea to enroll in the academy so a youth pastor can have the ability to think theologically why and how he/she is going to arrange their ministry.

maybe majoring in marketing is the best major, but majoring in ym may not be a bad choice too if one is pursuing a career in ym.

I think that your perspective would change toward this subject if you knew more about people, what youth pastors study, and more about ministry overall. It’s pretty bold to say that youth pastors are stupid especially when you know nothing about them. 93% of people that give their lives to the Lord do it before the age of 19. So yeah.

interesting point about youth pastors. I just got drafted to be a youth pastor again at a small church. all the previous pastor youth did was games. So now I have been handed a youth group that only wants to do games with no listening to teaching. Think it is going to take me 6 months to get them to sit still for 15 minutes. The parents insist on the games as they want it to be a fun place for kids to come.

It was easier to be a head pastor for 8 months than a youth pastor.

So all power to whoever leads a youth group. For qualification I do have a youth ministry degree with a urban ministries minor, plus a masters in non profit management. I think nothing you learn in bible college or seminary prepares you for ministry. yes the teaching on how to study and preaching helps. What helped the most was the children’s ministry I did in inner city mpls. That is where I learned to love others more than myself with Gods help

Nice discussion!!!

Me–bivocational youth pastor in the past…for many generations of young people.

You make a great point that ministry is ministry. People skills are people skills. Nothing can replace hands on ministry…and in picking a fight you need to take an extreme position to get a rise. With that being said.

I learned more about youth pastoring coaching basketball. My Biblical Studies degree focused on Bible Study techniques. I told many that if I had never applied those principles I would have been clueless…because I had no “Youth Ministry” classes. God, through the Holy Spirit, has led and taught me a great deal…but He has also shown me that there are others who need to be discipled to become better ministers.

In the replies above, it was noted that Youth ministries often become a sub-church which doesn’t build the entire body. The point made is exactly why people need to learn more about Youth ministry. It is a transitional period of life, in the US culture, where adulthood has been delaid. Our culture has created adult-children. WE must transition them into the adult body of Christ. We cannot just play games…however, we can use instructive play to allow them to see the bigger picture. We cannot just tell stories…we must teach Christian world views and show them how to exogete your way through the Bible.

It was noted above that this is a critical time for spiritual formation. Unfortunately, we often put leadership in this area that have no training. Can they do well if they listen to the leading of the Spirit and stay in the Word? Yes. David fought and conquered the giant with a sling…but he learn how to use a sword and then trained a group of mighty men to surround him to do the work that God had given him.

I didn’t get a Youth Ministry degree, but I believe in them. I go to youth ministry workshops, teaching workshops, and coaching clinics to hone the skills and talents God has given me. “To whom much is given, much is required.”

That’s a very good poijnt, Granted, I’m planning on being a double major at college one of them being ym but i totally agree with you. no one needs a major in ym to be active with the youth or any else for that matter; they just need the dedication and love for other people to be involved as much as they can to spread around the words of Christ

I think that degrees in youth ministry are amazing! Yes, I have one. And on that note, I never had a class on guitar, games, hair, muisc, or fun. THe classes were based on relationships, how to recruit volunteers and inspire them. THere were classes on how to teach to prepare for a secular college where their beliefs are challenged. Also there were classes on boundaries and church structure. Some seminaries are smart and are responding to the accussations you started with. But they are adapting because at one point it was true. Get excited for the future degree earners.

i totally agree with you on this. Its not about a class but a CALLING by the holy spirit to ministry just like a pastor. I get training by Christ myself. God called me out and qualified me with a calling of a youth pastor and the most important things is getting the anointing by him to do the job. Its all about being called by God into ministries. Our youth need Godly influences regardless of a man made qualification. I must be lucky because i got my training for free

I’m a youth Pastor in England and I have a youth ministry degree (BAhons) from here in the UK, because you can’t really practice serious ministry over here without one. However I chose not to be ordained as a reverend because I believe there is a lot more quality found in practical training than in someone trying to do something just on the basis of calling.

Don’t get me wrong – calling is everything, but too many people screw up because they try to serve God just on the basis that He has called them. In the scriptures we read of people whospent years preparing and struggling before God unleashed them to serve in the ministry He had called them to. Just look at king David. And Jesus didn’t start the ministry He was called to until He was 30, during which time He most likely would have trained under various Rabbis and studied in the various stages of Bet Sefer, Bet Talmud and Bet Midrash to gain the knowledge of scripture required to go with the calling from His Father.

I was keen (after my calling and 4 years of youth work experience) to be trained to the best I could be to prevent me from teaching rubbish and practicing terrible doctrine because our young people deserve the best. If anything, youth pastors should receive the best training to give our young people the best foundation upon which to build the rest of their faith.

People who say ‘God will give you all the training you need to do the job’ have clearly never written or read much child protection legislation, nor compiled detailed legal Church constitution documents, nor known exactly what to do in the event of a disclosure of abuse or false accusation against themselves.

I am not only qualified in theology, social care, counselling and professional youth work practice, but I am also widely consulted by the local government because of my high level of training and experience.

Also, because in Britain we don’t suffer from the terrible separation of church and state, I am also able to work within schools as a professional councellor, social worker and minister because of my level of training.

The church around the world is plagued by unqualified morons teaching poor theology and hermeneutics and damaging young people by trying to run before they can walk. Training means accountability. Training means additional knowledge. Training means a standard by which we judge readiness to practice. Training means the ability to effectively contextually annalyse scripture. I know you can gain all this by reading the right books and serving under an already able youth pastor, But why not choose to take a bit longer and learn a bit more and maybe be a bit better at the end of it?

Please don’t bad-mouth those who take the time to prepare faithfully for God’s work. We owe it to our young people to be the best we can be. I wish you every success in God’s youth ministry. May you be enthusiastic and positive encouragers of all those you encounter.

Joel Ward
Youth Pastor
Upton Vale Baptist Church, Torquay, England

I teach youth ministry at a University and can say that I often have to defend why the degree exists. We focus a lot on adolescent development and how that should affect the type of games we play, how we preach and teach the same theology as adults get but on a level of understanding. Adolescence is much more complex than people give it credit as being and that means youth ministry is much more complex than it appears on the surface.

Also, ministry is ministry sounds true and is in some areas, but the youth pastor is an associate. On our teaching staff there are only two profs that have not been senior pastors. We have a different perspective than those who have been in the lead.

Personally, I hold degrees in both Adolescent Psychology and Youth Ministry. I will agree that we sectionalize out youth…but to say that A degree in youth ministry is stupid is a little too far. Our youth ministry core( and I was taught by the Great Dr.Ed Trimmer who is seen nationwide as kind of a guru in youth ministry) included everything from SPecial Education ( of both mentally and physically deficient students as well as exceedingly gifted students and how they interact to the whole group), communications, sermon preparation PARTICULARLY for a student audience, YES some forms of recreational leadership, Adolescent development classes, a class on statistics for youth (including numbers on pregnancy suicide depression etc.) counseling…to say nothing of the theology part of it. I feel better prepared for my ministry because when a church looks to hire me versus someone with a basic Religion degree they will know that while we both have had formal training in learning and understanding the word of God, I have been specifically trained in how to package it and market it to youth.

As someone who has a youth min degree and Had to read chap clark as for his degree, I disagree with you. My youth min degree did not only teach me about “gross games” ( summer camp actually taught me that) but it also taught me things that you don’t really think about. How to run your office, how to handle you volunteers. Etc Etc. it is also becoming the norm that if you want to get hired by a church here in America, you need to have a degree of ministry of some kind. But I also had a huge problem with chap clark and his book so you can take my opinion and throw it out the window if you like.